After reading the title do you sometimes get the feeling that our hopes and dreams of what school could be like are often " to good to be true"?
On page 9 it refers to "primary greatness". Do you agree with the premise and would you define it differently?
At the bottom of page 11 it refers to "regret" that teachers may have felt for emphasizing the test scores. Have you ever felt that and if so what can be done, considering the outside pressures on all of us?
Looking on page 14, respond to the passage on the universal and unique potential of children.
I do not believe our dreams for these children is too good to be true. Children do not dream about being failures. They dream about being great athletes, doctors, lawyers..... Somewhere along the line they start to fail academically or behaviorally . I believe everyone wants to succeed, they need to be shown how they can reach their successes.
ReplyDeleteI loved the definition f primary greatness. I had never thought of it from that standpoint. In school we are always focused on the academics, test scores.... Unfortunately primary greatness takes a back seat instead of being in the forefront.
I always have regrets when it comes to pushing curriculum for test scores. I regret not being able to spend more time with certain students who I know truly struggle. But unfortunately it is all about getting the material covered and hoping they have grasped it enough to do what they need to on the test.
All students are unique and have some gift. I wish we could spend more time helping our students find their special talents, whether it be academic, athletic, creative..... We have basically become an assembly line of academics due to the pressure of testing.
After reading about A.B. Combs, I can honestly say that I can understand why the chapter was titled that way. However, I also believe that the possibilities are endless if everyone has a common goal and implements the necessary elements to achieve that goal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the definition provided for primary greatness. Many times, school is the only place where children are presented with the basic principles that are highlighted in the definition. Unfortunately, I feel that only the teachers and/or parents are held accountable for the students' display of these (work ethic, treatment of others, level of initiative, etc.) principles. In other words, it seems that teachers are held accountable for making sure that students produce evidence of having these skills, when in all actuality, the students need more accountability in order to achieve these life skills.
Being a new teacher, I didn't really know what to expect when it came to standardized testing. However, the anxiety I felt, and the anxiety I saw on the faces of others when it came down to test time, was more than I had ever imagined I would feel. Those scores seem to be the only measurement of student success or failure (not in our eyes, but in the eyes of those who have set the standard). This is appalling. I have many students who probably don't perform to their level of ability on tests, but they are indeed successful. I can relate...my ACT score, among other standardized tests that were used during my time, was beyond terrible, but I feel that I still succeeded as a student. So, I do regret that they place so much importance on test scores.
I absolutely believe that each and every student possesses an array of strengths as well as weaknesses. We are not all wired the same way. Each individual is exactly that...an individual. Not all students are great at all things, but ALL students are great at SOME things. It is unfair to them to believe that because they do not perform above average or even average in all areas of academics that they can not be successful at other things. I try to constantly remind myself that each student (even the ones that really push my limits) has something unique to offer to every class, and they have the potential to enrich the lives of those around them in some way (even though it sometimes takes quite a bit of digging to find it ;).
I like the definition of primary greatness. I agree that while the school sounded too good to be true, I do believe that it is possible to have those skills and abilities in a school setting.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to learning "HOW" to make this happen!!
As an elective teacher, I haven't felt the direct pressure of test scores but have felt pressure to prove that I am contributing to the overall success of our school which is in part measured by "green dots"!
Amanda, I agree that many of our students won't perform to their ability. And afte teaching inclusion, I've found that it means a tremendous amount more that students find their niche rather than be able to define terms. I have told many of my students from this past year that college may not be for all, but they need to find something they enjoy by are not necessarily good at and set goals to achieve in that area. The idea of primary greatness just reinforces this whole belief.
ReplyDeleteGreat comments. While I don't feel the "teacher" pressures of testing I do feel the Principal pressures. As a beginning teacher and even when I first became an administrator I was able to stress what Mr. Covey describes as primary greatness. Although I do feel reward from students doing well on tests, the feeling you get when the students exhibit the primary greatness qualities is even more special. Somehow we have to do both. Problem is that it is difficult to do unless that is a goal that is supported by parents, students, teachers, administrators and central office staff, even the Board of Education. In fact, it is difficult even when we have the support. But, we can start the process and build momentum for that to happen. While we may not end up looking like AB Combs because our reality is different, we can have our own version of their success.
ReplyDeleteI, too, don't think that this type of learning atmosphere is "too good to be true." I've worked at a school before where expectations were very high and most of the students met them, because it was what everyone did already--it was the norm.
ReplyDeleteI like this definition of 'primary greatness' and I wouldn't change it. I agree that pushing for excellence doesn't always create greatness, rather more anxiety. Somewhere, you have to balance the needs of the individual students with the needs of the overall group. Helping students to meet their individual potential is as rewarding as the group succeeding, sometimes more so.
Like Mrs. Hughes, as an elective teacher I don't feel the direct pressure of academic testing, but also feel like I need to do more outside of my content to show that I am helping towards the overall school goals.
I am looking forward to ways that we as a faculty can implement some of these ideas here.
Since I am dragging up the rear on this one....
ReplyDeleteI agree totally with all these comments. I believe that somewhere inside each student.....ALL of these characteristics are there, either they don't know how to implement them or don't understand all there is to implementing them. Therefore, they choose not to acknowledge them at all.
Most every student in our school strives for attention; some positive and some not so positive. The idea of business leaders "regretting" hiring someone because they have "no clue" how to interact with others and take no responsibility for themselves completely blows me away. That is actually scary in a way.
I honestly believe that 'the buck has been passed' when it comes to all of the things Primary Greatness entails. Since the middle school age is VERY impressionable I believe that WE CAN DO THIS!
It seems there is always someone to convince when you want to bring about change. That being said, it would be difficult for me to see a valid argument on why we should not use this book as a model for our own school.
ReplyDeleteEvery comment I had prepared to share has already been blogged. I am late to this party. I will just wind up my entry by adding my personal opinion. To me this book presents positive changes that could occur on many levels if we implemented its principles at MMS. Just the thoughts of producing a school like A.B.Combs is exhilerating to me!
The leadership skills that are used at A.B. Combs are not too good to be true and other schools are said to have leadership success using the same principles , according to the needs of their own student body. All things are possible.
ReplyDeletePrimary greatness is a process that is never ending in the walk of life. However, the world sees secondary greatness as more important as it stresses wealth and fame as a measure of success. I believe it is important for students to have the chance to reach "primary greatness", so I really think the definition is one that I agree with even in today's material world.
Test regret is something I certainly can relate to as we are not ask to develop a student's talents and individual gifts. Our focus is to teach the objectives for the test, and students differ in their abilities in the academic world. Am I able to capture each student's potential just with test objectives?
We are require to test so test we must, but a test only gives a small picture of a student. They are so much more.
Love the phrase "All children smile in the same language".
Well, Monte, if you were the rear, I must be the tail. I'm backtracking on the chapters I missed earlier in the summer.
ReplyDeleteThe "too good to be true" title is completely understandable, given the overwhelming success of the AB Combs initiative. Mr. Covey is correct in his description that "they are in stark contrast to what we are used to hearing."
I agree completely with the "primary greatness" premise. I agree that "it represents who people are-every day" and that it should be given more encouragement for development in our students.
Although science is not tested separately (yet), I do feel pressure to help students with math and reading skills in my class in order to improve test scores. The regret I feel most, however, comes from not being able to really get to know my students due to the overload of my classes. With nearly 200 total students last year (a new record, according to Mrs. Shotts), I struggled with establishing bonds with students as I was able to do in the past. It is difficult to uncover the unique gifts of each child and celebrate their universal and unique potential under these conditions.